ND Filters

[justDee]

I made a video yesterday, after receiving my Freewell filter kit in the mail. My first time to use the filters, but I flew the same flight plan three times, back to back to back. One without a filter, the next with the ND8, and the third leg with the ND16. I think the ND footage looks the best, but not complaining about any of the three. I don't think I have enough of an 'artist's' eye to tell a great deal of difference. I filmed all of them in 2.7K, 24 fps, on auto setting.
Should I manually set the camera, or would I be better off just leaving it in auto?
And after reviewing this footage, I've created a new "test" pattern, one that is a bit longer, higher in altitude, and pauses, hopefully to get better quality footage of the horizon, trees, etc. This pattern seems a bit rushed.

 

[Reconnaissance Squadron]

I am just starting to experiment with filters for the Anafi too. I have discovered that the best way of putting them on is to let the drone boot up, leave it on a flat level surface then push the filter on. Having any filter on before the boot up inevitably results in the drone complaining that something is blocking the camera when it tries its oh-so-vital let's try to view my own rear end move. Once it has made that pointless move it is unconcerned about you putting on a filter as long as you don't tip the drone up in which case it looks like it is trying to hide like a puppy that doesn't want to be given its eyedrops.
I had previously noted that the push-fit of the Anafi is identical to that of the Mavic Pro so that you can put Mavic Pro filters onto an Anafi - but the results are unsatisfactory, there is a vignette effect. Although the fit is the same the Anafi filters have smaller glass area and it is recessed. With the right filters the results are good. I think we need to be careful to avoid using too dark a filter as if we do there can be noticeable noise in the video. It is probably better to use an ND4 when you should have used an ND8 rather than an ND16 because if there is too much noise in the video that is an error you have created.

 

[jmbsmt63]

OK...IF you are just slapping a filter on there and letting the camera auto adjust to that...just throw the filters in a bag or get your money back! You are not using them properly and have wasted your money!
The ONLY purpose of using an ND filter is to be able to "slow down" the shutter (make it stay open longer) when it normally wouldn't. For example in bright daylight
The intended result is to have a bit of "motion blur" in the video which is supposed to induce the feeling of movement instead of the less blurred but more detailed video with the shutter faster....I know... kind of hard to visualize unless you see it side by side which there are plenty of examples of out there.

To get that proper effect, you have to manually slow down the shutter in the settings which you are able to do with the filters installed. If you try to slow down the shutter without the filter, it will vastly overexpose the image. There is a guideline/rule that states to have the shutter set to twice the frame rate so, 24 or 30 FPS would mean you'd be looking to set the shutter to 1/50th or1/60th of a second and still keep that exposure normal. But holding the shutter open longer will make it more susceptible to any movement and cause a blur! Which is nice when you WANT to relay that look of a slight blurring which is how the eye sees motion but not so nice if you DON"T want that like if trying to get that nice clear image captured

If you are just installing a filter and just letting the camera "auto adjust" it will just adjust to the darker environment which will include raising the ISO which will induce grain.
The tiny sensors in these things NEED a lot of light for the best images...A filter takes it away leaving you to try to get it back. If you don't know how you will never see a good result and as noted by the reply you might induce a lot more artifacts and grain.

The ND PL filters will also have the ND filters darkening and add the PL (polarizing) will cut down the glare ( like over water for example) but have to be adjusted to maximize the effect. Again there are many videos out there showing how to use a PL filter to the best effect.

 

[justDee]

Then I have just learned a whole lot from the replies. Figured I was going to go about it the wrong way, and apparently I did.

 

[JD4x4]

All of the technical issues aside .. there IS a noticeable difference in the 3 images and on balance I like the look of the ND8 filter because it seemed to increase the sky/cloud contrast while not making the grass too green/light like the ND16 (at least I thought it too light). I think it would have been a better sample though if the sunlight & cloud ground patterns you had in the ND16 vid more closely matched the first two, but nature will be nature, lol.
I would have liked to see a ND4 in comparison also. Can you please re-do it all with ND4 included?

 

[pmh1nic]

OK...IF you are just slapping a filter on there and letting the camera auto adjust to that...just throw the filters in a bag or get your money back! You are not using them properly and have wasted your money!
The ONLY purpose of using an ND filter is to be able to "slow down" the shutter (make it stay open longer) when it normally wouldn't. For example in bright daylight
The intended result is to have a bit of "motion blur" in the video which is supposed to induce the feeling of movement instead of the less blurred but more detailed video with the shutter faster....I know... kind of hard to visualize unless you see it side by side which there are plenty of examples of out there.

I'm confused by this statement. The results are different depending on the filter used so the filters are having an impact even with the camera in the auto mode. The camera isn't adjusting to the point of negating the presence of the filter.

 

[jmbsmt63]

I'm confused by this statement. The results are different depending on the filter used so the filters are having an impact even with the camera in the auto mode. The camera isn't adjusting to the point of negating the presence of the filter.

Let me preface all of my comments by stating that I live in Phoenix, AZ so the sunlight effects on photos are something I have experience with...lol.
Of course, there will be a difference in looking at the images. The real question is, which is the closest to what it actually was when looking with your naked eye?
And, if the images are labeled right the ND 16 filter is much brighter than the image without the filter...hmmm
It is not a particularly sunny day at the time of the video so it is all just the camera logic adjusting. I, personally, can see the effect of the filter on the "movement" of the ground in the ND 16 filter...The shudder must've slowed down considerably for that shot!
A LOT of people use the filters just as a type of sunglasses and if you like what it does then great...BUT, I guarantee that a picture/image shot WITH a filter (and left to adjust automatically) will NOT be as clear/sharp as the same image WITHOUT the filter.
But that is not the intended purpose of the filter.
You can do most of what a dark filter is doing in that case by lowering your EV value, manually, in the settings.

Yes, you can slap it on there like pair of sunglasses if in a very bright environment ....but the camera logic will just try to adjust to where it was before you put the filter on.... same as your eyes will do...
But the filters are used to alter the image to produce the previously mentioned "motion blur" not just affect the image brightness.
You are blocking light from entering the camera....but it depends on what the camera does to try to compensate for that light.
What "steps" did the camera take to adjust for the lower light between the different filters as above? Did the steps taken drastically change the image in regards to image quality to increase the brightness? That, in a nutshell, is the compromise.
The camera will do it's best to try to adjust to get back to what it considers a "normal" exposure so there are a few settings that will change. So that will affect the look of the outputted images...
If you go too dark with the filter ( just as if taking an image at night) the camera will do what it does and will start to open the shudder more ( which can induce blurring if the drone moves...which they do and again, that is the intended outcome...for VIDEO anyway) and raise the ISO which WILL cause a grainy image. No flash to bail you out on a drone! A dark image is not as good as a bright image ( if left to adjust automatically) so a manual adjustment is needed to override the cameras default handling of the reduced light the filter is causing
Drones are in their own little world in the photography world because they are ALWAYS moving...even in a perfectly calm day it will be moving (unlike a normal camera)

 

[justDee]

I haven't had time to reshoot, following the steps that jmbsmt63 talks about, but it is my intention to do so as soon as I have the time and the weather. I understand his explanation and it makes sense. I've not messed with the manual settings thus far, but I'm willing to learn.
I appreciate all of the advice and it will make my videos look better.
Thanks

 

[Dirk_ANAFI]

Many good advice on using filters can be found also in this thread:

What Filter to Use?

I am a total beginner and need some advise. I will be spending some time camping at the beach at the end of the month and hopefully will have some nice sunny days for flying and doing a little video recording and picture taking. Based on the little bit I have read on bright sunny days you can...

parrotpilots.com

 

[jmbsmt63]

I haven't had time to reshoot, following the steps that jmbsmt63 talks about, but it is my intention to do so as soon as I have the time and the weather. I understand his explanation and it makes sense. I've not messed with the manual settings thus far, but I'm willing to learn.
I appreciate all of the advice and it will make my videos look better.
Thanks

I am glad you are not "put-off" by my comments. Thank You.
Yes, playing with the manual settings will take a lot of time but if you are looking for the best possible images from the drone ( which it seems you are by posting in the first place) you will find some good options by learning what they will do.
In the end, you might even just decide to tweak a few things and let "auto" handle the majority of things

 

[pmh1nic]

Let me preface all of my comments by stating that I live in Phoenix, AZ so the sunlight effects on photos are something I have experience with...lol.
Of course, there will be a difference in looking at the images. The real question is, which is the closest to what it actually was when looking with your naked eye?
And, if the images are labeled right the ND 16 filter is much brighter than the image without the filter...hmmm
It is not a particularly sunny day at the time of the video so it is all just the camera logic adjusting. I, personally, can see the effect of the filter on the "movement" of the ground in the ND 16 filter...The shudder must've slowed down considerably for that shot!
A LOT of people use the filters just as a type of sunglasses and if you like what it does then great...BUT, I guarantee that a picture/image shot WITH a filter (and left to adjust automatically) will NOT be as clear/sharp as the same image WITHOUT the filter.
But that is not the intended purpose of the filter.
You can do most of what a dark filter is doing in that case by lowering your EV value, manually, in the settings.

Yes, you can slap it on there like pair of sunglasses if in a very bright environment ....but the camera logic will just try to adjust to where it was before you put the filter on.... same as your eyes will do...
But the filters are used to alter the image to produce the previously mentioned "motion blur" not just affect the image brightness.
You are blocking light from entering the camera....but it depends on what the camera does to try to compensate for that light.
What "steps" did the camera take to adjust for the lower light between the different filters as above? Did the steps taken drastically change the image in regards to image quality to increase the brightness? That, in a nutshell, is the compromise.
The camera will do it's best to try to adjust to get back to what it considers a "normal" exposure so there are a few settings that will change. So that will affect the look of the outputted images...
If you go too dark with the filter ( just as if taking an image at night) the camera will do what it does and will start to open the shudder more ( which can induce blurring if the drone moves...which they do and again, that is the intended outcome...for VIDEO anyway) and raise the ISO which WILL cause a grainy image. No flash to bail you out on a drone! A dark image is not as good as a bright image ( if left to adjust automatically) so a manual adjustment is needed to override the cameras default handling of the reduced light the filter is causing
Drones are in their own little world in the photography world because they are ALWAYS moving...even in a perfectly calm day it will be moving (unlike a normal camera)

So I think your point is that putting a filter on will have an impact on the video even in auto mode but the full benefit of a filter isn't realized without making manual changes in settings. I've got a lot to learn.

 

[jmbsmt63]

So I think your point is that putting a filter on will have an impact on the video even in auto mode but the full benefit of a filter isn't realized without making manual changes in settings. I've got a lot to learn.

Absolutely my point...
Learning is a good thing and makes for more opportunities to fly and look for and experiment with different things/settings

 

[Jagerbomb52]

I have one of the FreeWell ND1000 filters. When I got it last year it was fall time and never had a chance to test it out. Since then FreeWell has discontinued them as they said they did not work very well for the Anafi but since I still have mine and its spring time I want to try it out for some long exposure photos of water falls. No idea where my settings should be to get that effect. Looking for suggestions
???

 

[Jagerbomb52]

From reading some blogs I have come up with these settings. Would these work for our Anafi's?

ISO value – preferably around ISO 100 – to reduce the chances of noise in your images.
Shoot in RAW
Shoot in manual mode
Shutter speed around 1/60
Camera set to natural setting

Knowing the Anafi moves around a lot in the wind I guess it would have to be a very calm day to even consider this to work.

 

[Jagerbomb52]

Well a test shot in the back yard, not flying just powered up and a very sunny morning. Not a cloud in the sky the photo is pitch black. You can adjust it in Lightroom but there is a ton of noise. You can remove most of it using noise reduction but I am not a fan of doing that to much. Going to have to find a small water falls to experiment with.

 

[justDee]

I am glad you are not "put-off" by my comments. Thank You.
Yes, playing with the manual settings will take a lot of time but if you are looking for the best possible images from the drone ( which it seems you are by posting in the first place) you will find some good options by learning what they will do.
In the end, you might even just decide to tweak a few things and let "auto" handle the majority of things

I wasn't put off, I hope to learn from all the comments. And typed words are so easy to misunderstand versus the spoken word. Without hearing with your ears, letters can be interpreted in so many wrong ways.

I spent the morning shooting videos, flying a test pattern, experimenting with the various manual settings. After reviewing the footage, I'm going to modify the flight path and reshoot the videos. I liked some of the videos, and I used every filter but the CPL filter, so no filter in auto, and the ND4, ND8, ND16, ND32/PL, and the ND64/PL while experimenting with the settings.

One thing I've realized, every 'eye' is different, so what looks 'best' to me, may not be what you would choose. You just have to pick the setup that suits you and your 'eye.' It is fun testing and learning.

 

[jmbsmt63]

I have one of the FreeWell ND1000 filters. When I got it last year it was fall time and never had a chance to test it out. Since then FreeWell has discontinued them as they said they did not work very well for the Anafi but since I still have mine and its spring time I want to try it out for some long exposure photos of water falls. No idea where my settings should be to get that effect. Looking for suggestions
???

ND 1000 is like night...if not a completely sunny day you are going to have to have to the shutter as slow as possible but then it will have to be held perfectly still...and, unfortunately, will probably have to bring the ISO up to 400 or more...
I tried some night shots with the Anafi and the ISO and shutter combinations that had to be used made the images a grainy mess.
If still images are the goal you, of course, want them to be as clear as possible ( unlike a video because the motion will be part of the perception of the movement in the video) so any movement of the drone with a slow shutter speed will blur.
The tiny sensor ( basically a cell phone size sensor) is crap for very dark scenes. Everything is a compromise with the tiny sensors...That is where the 1" sensors come in ...they are able to capture more light so they can be "tweaked" much more readily. The "pro" models have an adjustable aperture also, which allows further tweaking of the light getting to the sensor.
The effect you are looking for, a "flowing stream" kind of thing is usually done exactly as you think with a filter to allow the shutter to be slowed (opened longer) and not be overexposed.
But an ND1000 might be too much.

 

[JD4x4]

@jmbsmt63-

I wasn't put off by your comments either, but rather was pointing out the visual differences I saw.
Since I was very deep into photography in the pre-digital days I know what you are saying, however the result is the result and that's why I commented as such. I never asked if that was what the OP was going for so glad you were able to explain these things. It's been a long time since I've used ND filters and your answer was good for me as well because I used them mainly for still images.

Since you live in AZ, what's been your experience and recommendation for use of just a polarizing filter, and/or using ND filters that are also PL filters (not all are, I'm finding)?

 

[jmbsmt63]

@jmbsmt63-

I wasn't put off by your comments either, but rather was pointing out the visual differences I saw.
Since I was very deep into photography in the pre-digital days I know what you are saying, however the result is the result and that's why I commented as such. I never asked if that was what the OP was going for so glad you were able to explain these things. It's been a long time since I've used ND filters and your answer was good for me as well because I used them mainly for still images.

Since you live in AZ, what's been your experience and recommendation for use of just a polarizing filter, and/or using ND filters that are also PL filters (not all are, I'm finding)?

I have found that under the right circumstances, A PL ( or PL/ND) filter will make a big difference, as they are designed to do, with reducing glare and helping define some color in the sky.
BUT, using a PL filter with a drone is a real chore since to maximize the effect of the polarization it needs to be adjusted to the suns angle and your subject matters angle to the sun. So it is difficult to do when flying with those angles always moving...A PL filter would be great in a few specific scenarios, for example, flying directly over a body of water and you want to keep the glare from the water you'd have to fly in the same direction/angle to the sun and water because once you adjust the polarizing filter it needs that same angle to have it's "effect"
I, personally, rarely use a filter of any type even in the AZ sun. I usually like to have as much detail come through and taking some light away from the sensor will slow the shutter and make it way too easy to induce a blur. A tripod is needed for the best results when slowing down the shutter...and of course, not an option with a drone...there will ALWAYS be some movement even on the calmest of days. I do keep ND/PL filters handy for any shot that might benefit them but rarely I use them.
Again, I am primarily referencing photos and not video.
Video with an ND filter will allow some of that "motion blur" but a PL will give weird dark spots and related bands if not adjusted to match the angles.
Anybody will have a different opinion of what "looks" nice to them so results/opinions will vary.

 

[justDee]

I have found that under the right circumstances, A PL ( or PL/ND) filter will make a big difference, as they are designed to do, with reducing glare and helping define some color in the sky.
BUT, using a PL filter with a drone is a real chore since to maximize the effect of the polarization it needs to be adjusted to the suns angle and your subject matters angle to the sun. So it is difficult to do when flying with those angles always moving...A PL filter would be great in a few specific scenarios, for example, flying directly over a body of water and you want to keep the glare from the water you'd have to fly in the same direction/angle to the sun and water because once you adjust the polarizing filter it needs that same angle to have it's "effect"
I, personally, rarely use a filter of any type even in the AZ sun. I usually like to have as much detail come through and taking some light away from the sensor will slow the shutter and make it way too easy to induce a blur. A tripod is needed for the best results when slowing down the shutter...and of course, not an option with a drone...there will ALWAYS be some movement even on the calmest of days. I do keep ND/PL filters handy for any shot that might benefit them but rarely I use them.
Again, I am primarily referencing photos and not video.
Video with an ND filter will allow some of that "motion blur" but a PL will give weird dark spots and related bands if not adjusted to match the angles.
Anybody will have a different opinion of what "looks" nice to them so results/opinions will vary.

Good info for us all. I have found with my testing, that even without the filter, in manual mode you can make a lot of great adjustments and really improve the image quality.