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FF6 6.7.0 update and firmware 1.7.3

Joe_Scot

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You need to start the take-off and keep the altitude over 3M at lease & wait for around 1-minute duration! On the ground will never get both of GPS in GREEN!!!
This is not the case for me. I would not take off unless both GPS indicators are green. Eight flights since the update and both show green before take-off (although it has been slower to obtain green GPS indication since the update)
 

MustangPhil

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I did the updates of the firmwares and software on the SC3 and Anafis on Sunday.
Then I flew a roof inspection mission on Sunday : No GPS at all on the Anafi side. I had the permanent message ‘Unstable drone due to lack of GPS’ on FF6 (that’s not the exact message), from the ground, then in the air even after 3 batteries of flight.

During further tests of my 2 Anafis On Monday, I could get a steady green sat acquisition on the ground after a hard reset of the Anafis.

When Anafi is ‘On’ and on the ground, I pressed and maintained the On button of the battery during 15 seconds and only released it when the 4 battery leds are red.
I let it reboot and reconnect to my SC3, and the app showed both GPS in green.

Can anyone test this procedure ?
 
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BRC

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I did the updates of the firmwares and software on the SC3 and Anafis on Sunday.
Then I flew a roof inspection mission on Sunday : No GPS at all on the Anafi side. I had the permanent message ‘Unstable drone due to lack of GPS’ on FF6 (that’s not the exact message), from the ground, then in the air even after 3 batteries of flight.

During further tests of my 2 Anafis On Monday, I could get a steady green sat acquisition on the ground after a hard reset of the Anafis.

When Anafi is ‘On’ and on the ground, I pressed and maintained the On button of the battery during 15 seconds and only released it when the 4 battery leds are red.
I let it reboot and reconnect to my SC3, and the app showed both GPS in green.

Can anyone test this procedure ?
Hi MustangPhil
I have tried hard resets several times - still does not improve GPS lock on ground
Funny thing is I can move the drone a foot or two on ground or lift it up and then its GPS will go green
Or i can take off without a GPS lock then it will go green and sometimes give precise landing
I did have a test flight yesterday, no GPS lock on ground, after takeoff it went green with precise landing
When I performed a manual RTH, it came back to take off point, started to descend, then about 20' above landing it took off straight forward
I was quick to take control back but nearly went into tree. Was odd as this was the only time it behaved this way after numerous testing
Maybe it was me just doing something stupid - as I tested same scenario several times today without issue
Anyway I am not overly concerned as I seem to be able find a spot where it will lock
Just find it odd but I still need to perform additional testing
Happy flying
 
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MustangPhil

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Thanks for your tests.
The problem of GPS fix is more complex than it seems.
During the hard reboot I may have hold up and down the Anafi and it could explain I got the signal back. But when I flew 3 batteries on Sunday, I did not have any GPS the whole time. I flew up to 40m and in this area I should have got the signal even on the ground.
Hope they will quickly find what’s going on !

For you sudden drift problem, did you calibrate your Anafi after the update, or does the scene for take-off / Landing have magnetic interferences ?
 
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Dirk_ANAFI

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@BRC I also had a problem sometimes getting GPS fix on the ground.
So I tested other positions nearby and found that a position a few meters away had quicker fix.
I think my 1st position had GPS shadows from our house, a wall and possibly trees around.
 
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BRC

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@MustangPhil
"For you sudden drift problem, did you calibrate your Anafi after the update, or does the scene for take-off / Landing have magnetic interferences ?"
It really did not seem like a drift problem - appeared to be the start of a fly away - but I could be wrong, will be watching closely on next testing -
I dont think it was magnetic interference and I did calibrate before flight

@Dirk_ANAFI
I think you mat be correct on the shadows, which appears to be something with the way the new GPS locks
I plan to spend some time this weekend - maybe take a test flight off the roof om my house
Either way I can find a work around to get it up and flying, so not that big of a deal
The warning message that Drone is "not in optimal flying conditions" is annoying on take off and landing though

I do appreciate both of your inputs and stay safe!
 

MustangPhil

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Not sure about the shadows, I just did a test on the ground and did not take off.
I was located a few feet from my house (see picture below).
On Sunday, I had 0 GPS at that same spot.
Then made a mission in the neighborhood (3 batteries, and flew 40 meters high ... 0 GPS the whole flights).
Then I rebooted and did the same test of just starting the Anafi near my house, same spot ... 15 GPS caught after 1 minute on the ground.

Here are the pics of the test I just did to check :
 

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AnafiPilot1

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Does your phone/tablet have internet access? It me that your ephemeris was not valid which would cause the drone to do a cold start on the GPS which does take several minutes or more to get a position.
 

MustangPhil

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Not sure if the ephemeris is sent from the phone/tablet connected to the internet to the internal gps chip of the Anafi...
Most of the time my tablet is not connected to the internet when on the field (no SIM card in the iPad, WiFi signal far away, and airplane mode).

But your theory about ephemeris could be in fact the following :

- The Anafi internal GPS does auto-build its map of existing satellites without the need of the internet.
- when you use it regularly, the ephemeris does auto-update depending on the signal it received from USA GPS and Russian Glonass. The cycles of the CPU allows this update.
- There is an update on the Anafi line of product with a newcomer ‘The Anafi USA’ that needs to connect to more GPS constellations than the regular Anafi.
- This Anafi USA has a lot in common with the regular Anafi except some components that are made in the USA (probably a CPU) and can keep some critic components that are not made in China (the GPS chip is from Ublox a Swiss company)
- The whole range of Anafi, including our good old bird, benefits from this update and its GPS after the update Can catch 3 constellations (let’s add the European Galileo GPS satellites for example, that would explain the increase in GPS we catch since the last update).
- If all the above is realistic, then our old Anafi CPU cycle and its software may not be able to compute such informations as fast as the Anafi USA. What is also documented by ublox is the fact their GPS chip is much slower when you use 3 constellations rather than 2.
- Add to that the ephemeris must be ‘home build’ for 3 constellations of satellites instead of 2...

I wouldn’t be surprised if a soon to come update would revert to the original 2 constellations caught by our Anafis... keeping the 3 for the Anafi USA...
Let’s wait and see...
 

orybarfly

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@MustangPhil I agree with you in many aspects and all that would describe the latest behavior of our old Anafi, except for one thing: you may have to wait a lot to aquire a green gps indicator while it sits on the ground, but if you take off right away, the gps will turn green immediately. How can that be explained? I don't think it bypasses the ephemeris download when it takes off. There must be some other explanation.

Στάλθηκε από το MI 5s Plus μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
 

Agustine

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@MustangPhil I agree with you in many aspects and all that would describe the latest behavior of our old Anafi, except for one thing: you may have to wait a lot to aquire a green gps indicator while it sits on the ground, but if you take off right away, the gps will turn green immediately. How can that be explained? I don't think it bypasses the ephemeris download when it takes off. There must be some other explanation.

Στάλθηκε από το MI 5s Plus μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk
lose connection on the Anafi GPS?

Last two times I have been out it connects right away.
 

MustangPhil

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I did after the update 3 full batteries flights... 0 GPS and the error message ‘Drone unstable due to a loss of GPS’ (at a 40m heigth)
So I did not have the chance to take off and see the green GPS icon you observe.

After my full reset, I get the green signal of the Anafi GPS after 1 minute when I’m still on the ground near my house (where there is a ‘mask’ made by my house where half of the sky is in GPS shadow, I get 15 satellites now...)
 

d95gas

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Question for you guys who have updated, as I am still sitting on the fence with this one given the issues we have had in the past by jumping straight onto an update.

Does there seem to be any improvements in the battery management side? have any of you done a static test running the battery down to low numbers?

This time I dont want to jump unless there is any real benefits.

Thanks'
 

BRC

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Question for you guys who have updated, as I am still sitting on the fence with this one given the issues we have had in the past by jumping straight onto an update.

Does there seem to be any improvements in the battery management side? have any of you done a static test running the battery down to low numbers?

This time I dont want to jump unless there is any real benefits.

Thanks'
Only my opinion but unless you have a compelling reason to upgrade I would just wait a few more weeks
I did run 4 sets of batteries down until forced auto landing - all seemed fine, landed between 1- 3% - i still don't trust the battery management
What gives me concern is the issues with GPS Sat lock on both drone and phone - something does not seem right
I also noticed something odd I have never seen before -
When I initiated a manual RTH, on return path it was as if the drone was rotating left and right as if it was not sure of correct heading
Not really pronounced - but 1st time I thought maybe a prop was going bad - distance out was about 1500 feet
this happened on different anafis - I tested all three - as if they lost heading and then self corrected
Did not seem to be a problem at closer ranges though - I was prompted to recalibrate drones after flights too, three occasions
Never a dull moment - I have done about 15 to 20 flights since upgrade - most often i only run batteries to 50%
Has anyone else noticed this?

btw... i tested on android phone - no cell service, I also tested on iphone with cell service - same results
 
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AnafiPilot1

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Only my opinion but unless you have a compelling reason to upgrade I would just wait a few more weeks
I did run 4 sets of batteries down until forced auto landing - all seemed fine, landed between 1- 3% - i still don't trust the battery management
What gives me concern is the issues with GPS Sat lock on both drone and phone - something does not seem right
I also noticed something odd I have never seen before -
When I initiated a manual RTH, on return path it was as if the drone was rotating left and right as if it was not sure of correct heading
Not really pronounced - but 1st time I thought maybe a prop was going bad - distance out was about 1500 feet
this happened on different anafis - I tested all three - as if they lost heading and then self corrected
Did not seem to be a problem at closer ranges though - I was prompted to recalibrate drones after flights too, three occasions
Never a dull moment - I have done about 15 to 20 flights since upgrade - most often i only run batteries to 50%
Has anyone else noticed this?

btw... i tested on android phone - no cell service, I also tested on iphone with cell service - same results

GPS thing is not really an issue - I think the actual performance of the GPS is fine - they clearly have changed something on how quickly FF6 reports signal lock (both on the phone and drone).

Not noticed anything about the heading issue - have been testing the advanced RTH stuff. However my RTH distances have only been from around 150m (~450ft).
 

AnafiPilot1

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Not sure if the ephemeris is sent from the phone/tablet connected to the internet to the internal gps chip of the Anafi...
Most of the time my tablet is not connected to the internet when on the field (no SIM card in the iPad, WiFi signal far away, and airplane mode).

But your theory about ephemeris could be in fact the following :

- The Anafi internal GPS does auto-build its map of existing satellites without the need of the internet.
- when you use it regularly, the ephemeris does auto-update depending on the signal it received from USA GPS and Russian Glonass. The cycles of the CPU allows this update.
- There is an update on the Anafi line of product with a newcomer ‘The Anafi USA’ that needs to connect to more GPS constellations than the regular Anafi.
- This Anafi USA has a lot in common with the regular Anafi except some components that are made in the USA (probably a CPU) and can keep some critic components that are not made in China (the GPS chip is from Ublox a Swiss company)
- The whole range of Anafi, including our good old bird, benefits from this update and its GPS after the update Can catch 3 constellations (let’s add the European Galileo GPS satellites for example, that would explain the increase in GPS we catch since the last update).
- If all the above is realistic, then our old Anafi CPU cycle and its software may not be able to compute such informations as fast as the Anafi USA. What is also documented by ublox is the fact their GPS chip is much slower when you use 3 constellations rather than 2.
- Add to that the ephemeris must be ‘home build’ for 3 constellations of satellites instead of 2...

I wouldn’t be surprised if a soon to come update would revert to the original 2 constellations caught by our Anafis... keeping the 3 for the Anafi USA...
Let’s wait and see...

The Anafi uses the UBLOX Assistnow offline process for ephemeris.

Every 48 hours FF6 will attempt to download this from the Ublox offline data servers, it downloads 1 weeks of data, and only uses data for 96 hours after which it becomes invalid - the drone then uses standard cold start process.

The Ublox assistNow Offline only provides differential data for the GPS and GLONASS networks.

I have not seen any other code in FF6 which mentions say using the phone GPS-A data to help the drone - so the drone can only use the GPS knowledge it has already and nothing else.

Capture.JPG
 

JoeDC

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Make sure to check the google play for Freeflight app update. Also Pix4capture may need updated if you use that app.
 

MustangPhil

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@AnafiPilot1 : That’s an interesting info about the AssistNow services.
In the table below, I see they have 3 AssistNow versions (Online/Offline/Autonomous), and variants that can be free or seem to be available as a pay service).
Do you have an idea of what version is used on the Anafi ? (if I get you right, the version ‘Offline’ cannot get the almanach of the European Galileo constellation of GPS satellites). It could also be the ‘fully autonomous’ version ?

That could explain the long time taken to update the inboard GPS chip, and there could be a ‘branch’ of the software that states :
Wait until all GPS Satellites paths are know before to go green (GPS, Glonass, Galileo), and if the telepilot takes off, just use the ‘already known GPS’ (GPS, Glonass) and go green as he seems in a hurry’.

As I told you, I waited on the ground with the Anafi ‘On’ but the engines not running, and I ended catching green GPS signal after 5 minutes and took off after.
What bothers me is I flew a mission of 3 batteries the first day without any GPS.
 

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AnafiPilot1

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Yes it only uses the AssistNow Offline. Autonomous and Online require more connections to the internet which Anafi itself does not have.

The initial lock is taking much longer - which I really do not know why - the actual performance of the GPS is now very good compared to firmware 1.6.8, but that is probably down to using Galileo as the 3rd network.
 

Agustine

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OK lets mention almanac data for GPS. We have had this conversation many times in other forums with other UAV's. Mostly the Yuneec Typhoon H.
You don't see, you can't see anywhere that the almanack is updated! You just see a number of sats and the almanack can be obsolete! Stay idling for minimum 13 minutes if you haven't been in the air for 4-5days - or expect a fly away or a crash.
Interesting reading:

if a GPS receiver has no previous almanac or ephemeris data in its memory, it will have to perform a cold start, also known as a factory start. Without previous data to guide it, the receiver in a cold start must search for all the satellites without knowledge of its own position, velocity, or the time. When it does finally manage to acquire the signal from one, it gets some help and can begin to download an almanac. That almanac data will contain information about the approximate location.
Don't mix time for the cam to connect with time for a complete GPS almamack TFF. (Time to First Fix and Satellite Health)

There are usually three categories TTFF is split up into:
  • A "cold" or "factory" start refers to a situation in which the GPS device must acquire all data in order to start navigation, like if the device is brand new or has recently been factory reset. TTFF might take up to 12 minutes.
  • A "warm" or "normal" start means the GPS has most of the data it needs in memory and will start quickly - a minute or less. A warm start happens when the device has been off for a day or so, but not off so long that its data is extremely outdated.
  • "Hot" or "standby" is when the GPS device can get a signal quickly since it already has a valid position and correct almanac and ephemeris data. The device has normally been off for just a few hours. The TTFF in this situation is sometimes called "Time to Subsequent Fix" (TTSF).
 

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