Welcome to our Community
Wanting to join the rest of our members? Feel free to sign up today.
Sign up

The futility of HDR mode and correction of Anafi's video in Davinci Resolve.

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
Ask for help.
The HDR mode of PArrot Anafi exists only nominally. Practical use of this mode does not make sense, since the result is always disgusting. This is due to the automatic WB, which constantly changes along with the change of the scene. Since the drone is not a static camera and most often it moves when shooting, the scene changes constantly, and the WB changes along with the scene.
One example. The interval between frames is 15(!) seconds:
comparwb.jpg
Within 1 minute of the flight, the color temperature changed radically 7 times! So, HDR is kind of there, but you never want to use it.

Parrot programmers don't understand that changing the white balance in video is unacceptable or pretend that they don't understand. They told me that this is a "property of the matrix". If I didn't know how the matrix works, I would accept this answer but I know it and I understand that either the qualification of "programmers" is terribly low, or their attitude to customers is arrogant and contemptuous. So, in any case I do not want to communicate with them anymore, and, moreover, I will never buy their product again.

However, I would still like to use a drone that I have it already purchased.
Without HDR mode, the dynamic range of the Anafi camera is worse than in my smartphone. Correcting curves allow to correct the image but this leads to noise in the shadows.
When shooting architecture, these noises often appear in the center of the frame, which leads to spoiling the entire episode.

comparwb1.jpg
comparWBnoise.mp4 (16MB)

Please, share your experience!

When processing Anafi videos what correction methods do you use?

Is it possible to draw shadows without noise in this situation, or selectively remove it in Davinci Resolve?
 
  • Like
Reactions: knarz3r

AnafiPilot1

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
245
Reaction score
82
You really should not be letting the drone choose WB - you should set the WB manually to the scene you are filming.

The way I use the drone - is to manually set the ISO and WB, and let the drone handle exposure speed. If the scene is very flat (i.e. over cast day, no shadows, etc) then I will manually also set the exposure to suit the scene.

You cannot expect automatic mode to really understand what you are trying to achieve or film.
 

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
You don't understand the situation. Apparently, the quality of Google translation leaves much to be desired.

I will try to describe the situation in a different order.
1. The dynamic range of the Anafi's camera is very small and completely insufficient for shooting on a sunny day
2. To get a larger dynamic range usually use HDR.
3. When you turn on HDR, the automatic white balance is also automatically enabled. No other white balance mode can be selected. All other modes are blocked.
4. Since a fixed exposure value and white balance are absolutely necessary, I can't use HDR but I get a dip in the shadows as a result. However, this is a lesser evil. Automatic white balance is the devil in the flesh.
5. Correcting curves allow to correct the image but this leads to noise in the shadows. When shooting architecture, these noises often appear in the center of the frame, which leads to spoiling the entire episode.

So,

Please, share your experience!

When processing Anafi videos what correction methods do you use?

Is it possible to draw shadows without noise in this situation, or selectively remove it in Davinci Resolve?
 
  • Like
Reactions: knarz3r and Nidge

ROBANAFI

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
269
Reaction score
345

This was filmed HDR in AUTO WB with no editing. I cant see any difference in WB that you mention?
 
  • Like
Reactions: wilb0

Nidge

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
121
Reaction score
99

This was filmed HDR in AUTO WB with no editing. I cant see any difference in WB that you mention?
Even though your video was beautifully shot, and YouTube is not the best medium to critique, I could see colour changes, especially in the cloud banding, as the camera was pitched up and down.

I have to agree with the OP that to offer a HDR capability without the option to manually select or lock the white balance is an inexcusable oversight. However I feel sure the option was available some APP and/or Firmware versions back.

Regards

Nidge.
 

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
This was filmed HDR in AUTO WB with no editing. I cant see any difference in WB that you mention?
Nothing changes in your video. You shoot the same objects. If you turned the drone in the opposite direction from the sun, you would see how the automation would change the color temperature. It would be extremely difficult to correct this outrage.
 

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
However I feel sure the option was available some APP and/or Firmware versions back.
Representatives of Parrot claim that although this feature was available, but it never actually worked.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nidge

crossroad

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 1, 2019
Messages
151
Reaction score
40
It is worth opening an in-depth discussion about the quality of the video and the suggested settings.
Keep in mind the following:
Camera with limited capabilities compared to photo or video cameras, and WITHOUT CONTROL AND STABILITY by the user, as all the parameters of light are constantly moving and changing rapidly.
Basically everything is done with software, (and that's the big problem) as we can't talk about diaphragms or of course about serious lenses ...
If we reconcile with this truth, we can find a way to take advantage of all its benefits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mrajic

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
If we reconcile with this truth, we can find a way to take advantage of all its benefits.
This is absolutely true.
I seem to have found one solution that claims to be universal. I showed it in one of the screenshots above, but I'd rather repeat it here again.

2020-04-08_12-14-03.jpg
This is an output histogram.

The original histogram looks like this:
2020-04-09_12-48-34.jpg

In almost all cases, this leads to a positive result, which indicates some kind of persistent error. I have seen a similar color shift from "green" to "yellow-red" repeatedly in videos of other users on YouTube. So I'm not the only one with a problem. The second problem is the deep black shadows. The attempt I made to correct it led to the appearance of clearly visible noises. Either I went the wrong way, or I didn't finish what I started. I don't know much about the possibilities of Davinci Resolve, so I don't rule out that there is a simple solution.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Zigzag84

Agustine

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
3,198
Reaction score
1,886
Location
Ontario Canada
I don't think the hardware is the problem, everything "consumer" is designed to a minimum cost of component standard. From what I've been able to discern the hardware itself is adequate for the platform if used as intended, which is light lift, LOS, video capture. It actually does better than a lot of the consumer/prosumer drones where wind is concerned.
I see things more as software/firmware issues exacerbated by the large number of people with zero previous drone experience, couple with crap documentation. Improvements in documentation would likely reduce the number of issues generated by inexperienced users, if they bothered to read it. But they don't have all needed informational to review so a lot of bumbling will continue.
There are times I think we want more from these small systems than they can possibly deliver for the price we want to pay. Unless you have a ready customer base that will pay a heck of a lot more for the effort and product it’s impossible to justify going off the deep end for this stuff. You have to remember most customers satisfy a lot more easily than with what it takes to satisfy you or me. One other consideration usually the codec on the camera is chosen to not max out the camera processor at the cost of making the playback software work harder. Remarkably, you can have a really high end PC, loads of memory, plenty of disk space, and it can struggle playing back videos. The bottle neck is the video card, and video cards are better or worse at playing particular codecs/settings.

The trick that video professionals use is to transcode the video into a 'known good' format - with appropriate settings for best playback. Youtube also does some lightweight transcoding, but it doesn't go out of its way to alter key frames or some of the deeper settings. This is why comparing videos on YouTube is not a good option - it applies unpredictable changes to your video to suit Google's requirements, which can mean that the quality is affected. Use a high end video editor and you can have fine control over the transcoding process - and anyone who has sat through a long rendering session will know that even a top notch PC can take a long time to re-encode a video with optimal settings.

That's why the camera chooses an 'easy option' for encoding, and why straight out of the camera video can playback badly on some hardware.
 

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
Sorry that you don't like my opinion. Be very careful where you are going with that.
The quality of your opinion in this particular case does not matter in the least. You are pleased to present here a point of view that does not affect the topic under discussion in any way.
 

solaris8x86

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2020
Messages
8
Reaction score
4
Hi Abant, What you are experiencing can occur on a standard Digitalslr camera too. It is normal if you set it to [Auto] or the Flight app doesn't support HDR mode to manual exposure and white balance yet.

I agree it is not a hardware problem because in all generations of Parrot drones. They are also adjustable in their Flight Controller program called Dragon directly and imagiing is just an expression of light. In the camera hardware part. It changes nothing. When the firmware of the camera pre-processes the images. Then it starts to change things bases on some predefined algorithms. Which is totally software basis.

If the current HDR mode doesn't support to a manual white balance and exposure. You can keep bugging their customer supports but I don't think they can understand if they have no senses or experiences in a more professional photography. If you demand it to do for a job. Then you may have to consider to change drone.

** I'm not sure if I operate in this forum correct. Some posts are hidden. Strange things. Could be a bug. Hope It doesn't last long.
 
  • Like
Reactions: abant

Agustine

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 2018
Messages
3,198
Reaction score
1,886
Location
Ontario Canada
** I'm not sure if I operate in this forum correct. Some posts are hidden. Strange things. Could be a bug. Hope It doesn't last long.
Welcome solaris
Nice to actually have you posting in the forums and yes you operate in the forums just fine.
Your name has come up many times for what you are famous for. Keep up the interesting work and for giving your opinion in this post also.
 

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
If the current HDR mode doesn't support to a manual white balance and exposure. You can keep bugging their customer supports but I don't think they can understand if they have no senses or experiences in a more professional photography. If you demand it to do for a job. Then you may have to consider to change drone.
Thanks. We are not talking about professional use. I have 4 different drones that solve different tasks, including professional tasks. In this case, I am looking for ways to improve the video taken with Parrot Anafi and nothing more. I am aware of the existing disadvantages of this drone, but this does not mean that I should not try to improve what it gives me.
 

Test2000

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
211
Reaction score
26
With plog you lose a few stops of dynamic range but it will at least allow you to lock exposures and white balance..
It seems like a big oversight to not allow it in HDR mode, fully agree
 

AnafiPilot1

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 15, 2019
Messages
245
Reaction score
82
No really, Parrot have not properly confirmed - but I think HDR is just a software trick, hence why they do not allow it in PLOG.

The sensor is such limited dynamic range that it is not true HDR, just software gimick - and I would suggest shooting in PLOG and getting the desired look in post.
 

abant

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2019
Messages
160
Reaction score
126
Location
Spain
it is not true HDR, just software gimick
You can't create HDR from a single non-HDR frame. Any software processing methods modify existing image elements but do not recreate missing ones.

Many sources provide information that the Anafi camera uses a Sony IMX 230 sensor. For example, Review: Hands On With the Parrot ANAFI
This sensor consists of a signal processor that performs video processing, including HDR.

Sony's official press release about this sensor: Sony Announces the Exmor RS™, the Industry's First*1 Stacked CMOS Image Sensor with an Image Plane Phase Detection Signal Processing Function for High-Speed AF
------------------------------
High Dynamic Range (HDR) imaging
This function enables the camera to record still images and videos that reproduce details and rich gradations in the highlights and shadows of high-contrast scenes, such as those found in backlit environments. This is made possible by setting two different exposure conditions and applying the appropriate signal processing to the image information obtained from each condition.
------------------------------
The output video format of this sensor is RAW, which means that the lack of a fixed white balance in HDR is a whim or flaw of the Parrot developers.
 
Last edited:

AnafiPilot

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 6, 2018
Messages
150
Reaction score
85
Location
Crested Butte, CO
I agree that the Sony sensor is supposed to produce some kind of HDR output. I also agree about the perceived color shift. I never really noticed the white balance issue.

I attempted to use HDR several times, but could never find a solid workflow that produced a good image. The high price paid in color shift was not well enough rewarded by a wider dynamic range.

Likewise, I've experimented with PLOG, but never found a solid workflow that produced vibrant images. I just use the standard setting and the colors look great.

My latest experiment is using filters to manage shutter speed. There seems to be more grain in the image, but the shutter speed is much closer to matching the framerate, so motion blur is there.

re creating HDR from a single frame...it can be done in a limited way, but given curve and levels tools, I don't see the advantage. Boost the shadows, limit the highlights, and that's as good as it gets.

Raw video output is a heavy data stream. That's a lot of computing to pack into a flying CPU. Maybe that's where Parrot's aspirations ran into trouble. It would be great if it shot RAW HD, or even RAW 4k. Parrot continues to inovate and maximize the Anafi platform. Delivering 4k RAW would be a fairly significant achievement and bring great publicity. But I'm not holding my breath.
 

Latest threads

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
3,665
Messages
33,236
Members
4,898
Latest member
ncrone