Solaris8x86 views on the Parrot Anafi crash's(5/Nov)

[Jagerbomb52]

If you are talking about this thing.

Amazon.com: Hanatora Battery Charger (Indoor and in-car) for Parrot Anafi/ANAFI Base/ANAFI Extended/ANAFI FPV/ANAFI Thermal/ANAFI Work,Multi-Function Charging Accessories : Toys & Games

Amazon.com: Hanatora Battery Charger (Indoor and in-car) for Parrot Anafi/ANAFI Base/ANAFI Extended/ANAFI FPV/ANAFI Thermal/ANAFI Work,Multi-Function Charging Accessories : Toys & Games

www.amazon.com

Of course, it is not a balance charger.

The battery is designed to be charged only thru the USB-C port. After the USB Power is fed into the smart battery controller. It dispatches the current into 2 cells evenly thru the build-in balanced charging board (the vertical one). If you take a look to that thing in the pictures. Its charging port is actually using the discharge port of the battery. Which is totally the opposite side of the circuit of battery, is never intended for any charging activity but the discharge function only. Due to this reversed direction of feed in. The feeding power can never been preprocessed by the smart battery controller and go thru the balance charging board. So nothing can be monitored and processed. It is basically unmanaged. Besides, the charger's specifications has already stated the feeding power is 8.7v @ 2.7A each.

So, the way it connects to the battery and its specification have already told you that it is impossible be a balance charger for sure.

Yes that is what I suspected. Now I wonder just how many people that don't know this actually use that type of charger and have had the famous drop from the sky. This could be one of the main reasons we see so many of these posts. Using the wrong charger but they will never tell you that

 

[Gipsz Jakab]

Igen, igaz vagy!
Amit most látunk, és amit a Solaris kiemelt ezzel a fontos szálal, az az, hogy az Anafi világban egyre több "régebbi" akkumulátor található akár 2 év elteltével is, és ezek problémákhoz vezetnek.
E problémák (összeomlások, nem sikeres RTH-k ...) oka leginkább és felületesen maga a (régebbi) akkumulátor.
Eddig a legtöbb tag itt talán egyetértene.

De azzal a kérdéssel, hogy "mi rejlik a problémák mögött?" távolodunk egymástól (2 pont, volt még néhány ...):
1. hardver tervezés:
Kérdés: Nem lett volna biztonságosabb egy 3 cellás akkumulátor?
Válasz: Természetesen. Ha a központi feldolgozó áramkör megfelelően működik 5 V vagy 6 V feszültség mellett, akkor a vezeték fölötti akkumulátorok minden Voltja nagyobb biztonságot ér el azzal, hogy a drón hosszabb ideig képes reagálni egy korábbi (régebbi akkumulátor) feszültségcsökkenésre.
De: A 3 cellás akkumulátor nagyobb súlyt és költségeket jelentett volna a drón számára ...

2. firmware / szoftver:
Kérdés: Nem lenne jobb, ha a "tartaléktartály" 0% alatt lenne?
Válasz: Természetesen. De a tartalék 100% -ban IN. Talán 15% maradt elegendő tartalék egy új akkumulátorhoz a 2. töltés után, és talán 35% elegendő tartalék egy régebbi akkumulátor számára.
De: Ha drónt tervez, akkor a hosszabb repülési idő erős érv ennek a drónnak az eladásáért. Tehát nem hasznos kimondani a műszaki adatokban: a repülési idő 22 perc új és 12 perc régebbi akkumulátorral ... mindkettő plusz egy rövid tartalék hazaérkezéshez.
Kérdés: Nem lenne jobb, ha a szoftver / frmware megbízhatóbban számolná ki az akkumulátor% -át? Vagy kell-e további kijelző az akkumulátor feszültségéről?
Válasz: Talán. De valójában, ha a repülésedre összpontosítasz: Mikor döntesz úgy, hogy leszállsz? 25% 6284mV vagy 22% 6105mV vagy 19% 5874mV nyomáson? A drónja összeomolhat ezen értékek mindegyikénél.

Tehát mi marad?
Légy nagyon óvatos! Az újratölthető elemek kopó alkatrészek.

Question: Wouldn't it be better, if the software/frmware would calculate the % values for the battery more reliable? Or should there be an additional display of the battery voltage?
Answer: Perhaps. But really, if you are focussed on your flight: When will you decide to land? At 25% 6284mV or at 22% 6105mV or at 19% 5874mV? Your drone might crash at each of these values.

This is not true! The voltage value provides accurate information about the actual capacity.
As I have already written What you should know about Anafi batteries approx. You have to go home at 20% charge. This 20% is at 7.2V. Now watch the Solaris8x86 video again at the beginning with the wrong battery and imagine seeing this superfluity in the FF6 and starting home at 7.2V. You can accurately prevent a cut-off at 6.4V.
(for a bad battery this is 7.2V at 43%. Since the drone is off at 23%: 43% -23% = 20%. So you really keep at 20% when landing)
It can crash at any time due to other faults, but the complete shutdown is due to cutting at 6.4V, so you should no longer fly below 7000mV ...

 

[Gipsz Jakab]

There is an other parameter visible on FF6, at last in the last version 6.7.0, about the battery: the maximum battery capacity.
I don't know if it's new, but never saw that before.

Here is what I can see about my pretty faulty battery:
Maximum capacity: 56 %
I understand that this battery can't deliver more than half power than it was able when it was new. So, it could be half time, or even less, than it was able to do when it was new

View attachment 5072

This feature has been there since the beginning, you just have to scroll down the screen so many didn't notice it (not me at first)
I would already take care of that (56%) Mines: batt1: 97% batt2: 100% batt 3: 100%
As I wrote: I never once went below 20% and I always charged slowly (PC USB or max.2A mobile phone charger) and put it down to 60% and stored it.
That's all that matters!

 

[Dirk_ANAFI]

Question: Wouldn't it be better, if the software/frmware would calculate the % values for the battery more reliable? Or should there be an additional display of the battery voltage?
Answer: Perhaps. But really, if you are focussed on your flight: When will you decide to land? At 25% 6284mV or at 22% 6105mV or at 19% 5874mV? Your drone might crash at each of these values.

This is not true! The voltage value provides accurate information about the actual capacity.
As I have already written What you should know about Anafi batteries approx. You have to go home at 20% charge. This 20% is at 7.2V. Now watch the Solaris8x86 video again at the beginning with the wrong battery and imagine seeing this superfluity in the FF6 and starting home at 7.2V. You can accurately prevent a cut-off at 6.4V.
(for a bad battery this is 7.2V at 43%. Since the drone is off at 23%: 43% -23% = 20%. So you really keep at 20% when landing)
It can crash at any time due to other faults, but the complete shutdown is due to cutting at 6.4V, so you should no longer fly below 7000mV ...

The rechargeable battery voltage is and was NEVER an accurate information about the actual capacity.

 

[DaveW]

I think the lowest I have landed at is 30%. Typically 40 - 50% showing after 15 - 20 mins flying.
I don't trust battery level indicators, even the more sophisticated charge in / charge out type - we use a lot of LiPo for work, they are horribly unreliable measures in high current applications. Definitely you can't gauge capacity from cell voltage in high current applications as has been observed... And as the voltage drops, the current drain for the same power will rise - so it becomes a deathly spiral of discharge.

 

[Gipsz Jakab]

The rechargeable battery voltage is and was NEVER an accurate information about the actual capacity.

Yet every FPV drone racer and hobbyist sees the tension alone. All battery manufacturers also specify these as pivotal points ...
Monitoring this gives a good approximation of the current state of the battery.

 

[Gipsz Jakab]

I think the lowest I have landed at is 30%. Typically 40 - 50% showing after 15 - 20 mins flying.
I don't trust battery level indicators, even the more sophisticated charge in / charge out type - we use a lot of LiPo for work, they are horribly unreliable measures in high current applications. Definitely you can't gauge capacity from cell voltage in high current applications as has been observed... And as the voltage drops, the current drain for the same power will rise - so it becomes a deathly spiral of discharge.

I don't even want to measure capacity ... All I want is to be able to bring the drone home before it's completely exhausted. The whole conversation also started with a lot of people falling off the air at 20%. This is where Solaris came in, who showed that the tension did indeed indicate impending complete discharge, and if we can see this thanks to Anafipilot1, accidents can be prevented. Or don't you think?

 

[DaveW]

Yes, as I said.. Land earlier...

 

[edwardfcy1970]

Yes, as I said.. Land earlier...

But some guys love to using the Anafi as a long-distance bomber. Finally, it looks like the Japanese's "Kamikaze" while the battery end-up.

 

[DaveW]

 

[Deleted member 3201]

yeah once you have done 2.6KM distance in near perfect conditions, why would you want to exhaust the battery every time?

It's like always driving your car to 1% fuel or always filling your entire SD card of your camera

 

[Nesher]

I appreciate Solaris8x86's concerns re: pricing/selling his replacement battery packs.
Would any of these work?
GForce 20C 2700mAh 2S 7.4V LiPO for WLToys 12423 and 12428 (T-Connector) | Value Hobby

Amazon.com: ZZBAT 2pcs 7.4V 2700mAh 20C 2S Lipo Battery with T Plug for Wltoy 10428-A 10428-B 10428-B2 10428 1/10 RC Crawler Car Feilun FT012: Home & Kitchen

Amazon.com: 7.4V/2S 2700mAh 20C LiPO Battery T-Plug: Toys & Games

Venom 7.4V 4000mAh 2S 20C DRIVE LiPo Battery: UNI 2.0 Plug | Tower Hobbies

 

[MustangPhil]

Hello Solaris,
I’m not sure If the Anafi original cells that are manufactured by Grepow are ‘proprietary models only’...

You can find this reference of LiHV cell on their website, it’s the first one they sell/promote in the row in the table below :

 

[Fox Fader]

Yes that is what I suspected. Now I wonder just how many people that don't know this actually use that type of charger and have had the famous drop from the sky. This could be one of the main reasons we see so many of these posts. Using the wrong charger but they will never tell you that

This is a good thought. How's the battery been charged for those who have had this problem?

 

[Buck]

I purchased a Tattu 1550mAH 100C 4S1P HV Li-Po, (15.2V). Removed the two outer cells reconfigured them to create 2S2P (7.6V) 3100mAH pack.

Connected it to the lower Anafi battery case same as Parrot had the 2S 2700mAh. Taped the USB C Charging/on/off/LED board, (BM) on top of the pack. Weight = 190g +/- w/cell monitor. Anafi pack = 134g +/-.

Charged using USB C PD charger @ 16W.
Charged to 4.34xV per cell = 8.68xV
Discharged via indoor hover to Auto land. (see video for timer, TX & cell voltages)

After Auto land discharged pack to 7.6V, (3.6V per cell) using 6.2A load which produced another 1093mAH.

Rinse & repeated a couple of times. Never made it to 18 minutes before Auto land @ 1% indicated by FF6.

Increased weight and higher current draw was expected, which decreased the % quicker and it Auto lands sooner.

BM = mAH in = mAH out, no consideration for total voltage or cell voltage.

The BM does monitor cell voltages and when a cell gets down to 3.1-3.2V it shuts the system down. Total voltage can still be above 6.5V when this happens. Verified this with a balance connector to the original Anafi battery and a cell monitor in flight.

 

[MustangPhil]

Thanks for sharing your experience and your video.
It is very instructive !

In the video, the auto-landing function seems to be triggered when both ‘individual parallel couple of cells’ indicate 3,76 V and the whole pack is stil 7,52 V...

Did you measure each individual cell and found one that was 3.1 V ? (It seems difficult as they are parallel mounted and the measurement made by the Battery Management System cannot ‘guess’ that one cell is weak ?

 

[zandoli]

This battery is almost what we would need
Voltage: 15.2V
Cell Count: 4S (4 Cells)
Capacity: 1350mAh
Discharge Rate: 100C
Charge Rate: 5C
Dimensions: 75 x 36 x 33mm (±4mm) (LxWxH)
Weight: 163g (±10g)

HeliDirect - Your #1 Sources for R/C Helicopters, FPV, Jets and More.

HeliDirect has a huge selection of RC helicopters, helicopter toys and remote control helicopter. Get ultra fast shipping times direct to your door.

www.helidirect.com

Anafi battery - 128g

Change config to 2700mAh 7.6V 2S2P
Shaving off that bulk should bring it closer to Anafi battery weight.
Based on the dimensions it may not be able to fit in the Anafi case.

I'd jump all over the batteries Solaris offered if it weren't for that exorbitant shipping fee to the US.

 

[Buck]

@ MustangPhil
You will never have a single cell in a parallel configuration that will have a different value than the one it is paralleled to. The single cell reference was a measurement of the original Anafi 2S battery or am I not understanding your question?

 

[Fmaxii]

This battery is almost what we would need
Voltage: 15.2V
Cell Count: 4S (4 Cells)
Capacity: 1350mAh
Discharge Rate: 100C
Charge Rate: 5C
Dimensions: 75 x 36 x 33mm (±4mm) (LxWxH)
Weight: 163g (±10g)

HeliDirect - Your #1 Sources for R/C Helicopters, FPV, Jets and More.

HeliDirect has a huge selection of RC helicopters, helicopter toys and remote control helicopter. Get ultra fast shipping times direct to your door.

www.helidirect.com

Anafi battery - 128g

Change config to 2700mAh 7.6V 2S2P
Shaving off that bulk should bring it closer to Anafi battery weight.
Based on the dimensions it may not be able to fit in the Anafi case.

I'd jump all over the batteries Solaris offered if it weren't for that exorbitant shipping fee to the US.

Well done !
Tattu Rline V2, 4s HV at 1300 mah are pretty the same size.
And, the manufacturer of Tattu is also Grepow. The same one who provide anafi’s cells..

 

[Gipsz Jakab]

I purchased a Tattu 1550mAH 100C 4S1P HV Li-Po, (15.2V). Removed the two outer cells reconfigured them to create 2S2P (7.6V) 3100mAH pack.

Connected it to the lower Anafi battery case same as Parrot had the 2S 2700mAh. Taped the USB C Charging/on/off/LED board, (BM) on top of the pack. Weight = 190g +/- w/cell monitor. Anafi pack = 134g +/-.

Charged using USB C PD charger @ 16W.
Charged to 4.34xV per cell = 8.68xV
Discharged via indoor hover to Auto land. (see video for timer, TX & cell voltages)

After Auto land discharged pack to 7.6V, (3.6V per cell) using 6.2A load which produced another 1093mAH.

Rinse & repeated a couple of times. Never made it to 18 minutes before Auto land @ 1% indicated by FF6.

Increased weight and higher current draw was expected, which decreased the % quicker and it Auto lands sooner.

BM = mAH in = mAH out, no consideration for total voltage or cell voltage.

The BM does monitor cell voltages and when a cell gets down to 3.1-3.2V it shuts the system down. Total voltage can still be above 6.5V when this happens. Verified this with a balance connector to the original Anafi battery and a cell monitor in flight.

Landing in the video:
All: 7.52V
No1: 3.76V
No2: 3.76V
Then why did he write that: "After Auto land discharged pack to 7.6V, (3.6V per cell) using 6.2A load which produced another 1093mAH."
And isn't it understandable how you're talking about cells? Since the anafi monitors the values of two cells, and here there are 4 cells, it is not possible to monitor the values of each cell separately. (I know the 2s2p layout)
Nor do I understand: "Verified this with a balance connector to the original Anafi battery and a cell monitor in flight."
Where do Anafi have the balance connectors?